Posts by Anders Andersen

18

I’m so sad . . .

by HappyBlessedFree in

so my husband asked me if i’m going to the memorial.

i said “no”.. he asked would it be okay if i take the kids.

“i would prefer that you didn’t”.. why can’t he see the lies!

Anders Andersen

You must feel quite frustrated and anxious, trying to keep you child from being dragged into the cult while your husband wants to drag them in.

I'm in a similar situation, although I'm lucky enough to be the husband, and so far I managed to have my wife (reluctantly) agree to stop bringing our young child you meetings.

It may be tempting to try and make your husband see the light...but that may or may not happen. More important is to make him stop dragging your children into the cult.

Here's the 'script' that I followed:

First come to an agreement that children (in general) should make up their own mind on religion, and not be forced to worship as their parents do.
Then make it more specific: this applies to your children and JWism too, right? Or are JW children forced to become JW?
Once the stage is set for that, come back to your husband's request to bring the children to the memorial. There is only one important question: why should your children have to be there or in any other JW meeting?
Your husband has limited options to reply: because the Bible says so, or to save their lives, or because they need to learn about the memorial, pay respect to Jehovah and Jesus etc.
Again: why would children (especially young children) need to do any of that? Would they understand what's going on there? If not, they needn't be there. If so, he might just as well explain the proceedings to them at home.
If they are brought to JW meetings, would he agree to let you bring them to Easter mass in some other church too? After all, you agreed your children should be able to choose for themselves, so if they attend one church (JW) they should know about the others too.

I managed to stay out of any doctrinal discussions. While discussing this topic, I didn't make any claims about JW being not true. I simply stuck to

what they tell at JW meetings isn't suitable for young children (murder, immorality, war, execution, incest) to hear
if the child is too young to understand there is no use in bringing them
if the child is older, it's basically unfair to them to bring them to the KH without showing them other church meetings at least just as often.

Perhaps you can use any of this l. It depends a bit on how out you are, and how old your children are. But I suspect this route is faster than trying to get your husband out. You can still do that afterwards....

11

Dutch (ex) JWs: Online survey sexual abuse within JW Netherlands by Utrecht University

by jochie in

since today dutch (ex)jws are asked to fill out an online survey by utrecht university with regard to (child) sexual abuse.as chairman of reclaimed voices i call on all dutch speaking (ex) jws to fill out this survey in case you were a victim of abuse or in case you know of someone else that was abused within the jehovah's witnesseswith your participation you contribute to an important investigation that is carried out.link to the survey: https://usbo.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/sv_4hkmbqjhlm0uhmh

Anders Andersen

After the special talk this weekend. An announcement was made to the congregetion that victims of sexual abuse or those who know them can participate in this survey.

Wow George One Time I take back my words about April Fools. You were right. They really did read a letter! Can't believe they actually did that.

https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/artikel/4678986/jehovahs-getuigen-oproep-leden-meewerken-misbruik-onderzoek

11

Dutch (ex) JWs: Online survey sexual abuse within JW Netherlands by Utrecht University

by jochie in

since today dutch (ex)jws are asked to fill out an online survey by utrecht university with regard to (child) sexual abuse.as chairman of reclaimed voices i call on all dutch speaking (ex) jws to fill out this survey in case you were a victim of abuse or in case you know of someone else that was abused within the jehovah's witnesseswith your participation you contribute to an important investigation that is carried out.link to the survey: https://usbo.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/sv_4hkmbqjhlm0uhmh

Anders Andersen

I'd love to send the video footage of Geoff Jackson's ARC testimony to this fucktard, particularly the bit where Jackson - for all intents and purposes - admits that there's a problem.

I think the Dutch JW leaders are feeling the heat of the fire...this appears to be the first time they flat out mentioned to JW members the attention the media have for JW abuse issues.

The guy who gave the talk is high up enough that he probably knows he's talking shit. No doubt the GB already sent letters to all branches regarding the abuse issues, and he's probably aware of those letters.
No doubt this bro noticed the dozens policemen raiding his Bethel office looking for evidence re. child abuse.
No doubt this bro knows one of the GB came to The Netherlands to discuss child abuse issues with the Minister of Justice.
So he probably already knows about the ARC, perhaps even saw Jackass' testimony....still didn't help him much.

Otherwise I know the guy and he's nice enough. He just lives and works in a cult compound...

11

Dutch (ex) JWs: Online survey sexual abuse within JW Netherlands by Utrecht University

by jochie in

since today dutch (ex)jws are asked to fill out an online survey by utrecht university with regard to (child) sexual abuse.as chairman of reclaimed voices i call on all dutch speaking (ex) jws to fill out this survey in case you were a victim of abuse or in case you know of someone else that was abused within the jehovah's witnesseswith your participation you contribute to an important investigation that is carried out.link to the survey: https://usbo.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/sv_4hkmbqjhlm0uhmh

Anders Andersen

During the recent circuit convention the Bethel representative said in one of his talks that everything the media say about JW and child abuse are lies, and staying faithful means rejecting these lies. He claimed children of JW are in the safest possible environment to grow up.

11

Dutch (ex) JWs: Online survey sexual abuse within JW Netherlands by Utrecht University

by jochie in

since today dutch (ex)jws are asked to fill out an online survey by utrecht university with regard to (child) sexual abuse.as chairman of reclaimed voices i call on all dutch speaking (ex) jws to fill out this survey in case you were a victim of abuse or in case you know of someone else that was abused within the jehovah's witnesseswith your participation you contribute to an important investigation that is carried out.link to the survey: https://usbo.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/sv_4hkmbqjhlm0uhmh

Anders Andersen

After the special talk this weekend. An announcement was made to the congregetion that victims of sexual abuse or those who know them can participate in this survey.

You're much too late for April Fools...

38

A Must Read Update on WBTS and Darkspilver from reddit

by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

jw
friends

many of us know that watch tower (yes, two words in this case) has issued a subpoena to reddit to try to gain darkspilver's identity due to accusations of copyright infringement:.

tl;dr: on april 9, watch tower filed a response to the eff's motion to quash (filed march 26) regarding the subpoena submitted to reddit in an attempt to find /u/darkspilver's identity.. the wt response is publicly available here as a pdf, from the site court listener.. a number of other documents relating to the case are available on the same site, here.. and the eff's motion to quash is available on the eff's website here.. details: as i'm sure many of us know, watch tower (yes, two words in this case) has issued a subpoena to reddit to try to gain /u/darkspilver's identity due to accusations of copyright infringement.

specifically, watch tower is claiming copyright infringement for two things: first, darkspilver posted the back page of the november 2018 watchtower which was an article entitled "what gift can we give to jehovah?” which explained how to donate.

Anders Andersen

Whats super weird is that on Facebook they have subpoenaed one José dude who has a PRO JW site

Nope, that's not weird, that's what Watchtower must do or all their court cases against critics will be lost. If WT ignores some copyright infringements they know about, their arguments against others would be much weaker.

"We want people to visit JW.org"

"So why don't you cease and desist pro-JW.net?"

Watchtower even admitted as much in a not too old WT:

Questions From Readers
Why is it not permissible to post publications of Jehovah’s Witnesses on a personal website or on social media?
Because we offer our Bible-based material without charge, some feel that copying and posting it on other websites or on social media is acceptable. However, doing so violates the Terms of Use* for our websites and has caused serious problems. As is clearly stated in those Terms, no one is permitted to “post artwork, electronic publications, trademarks, music, photos, videos, or articles from this website on the Internet (any website, file-sharing site, video-sharing site, or social network).” Why is such a restriction needed?
All the material on our websites is copyrighted.

Apostates and other opposers try to use our publications on their websites to lure in Jehovah’s Witnesses and others. Planted in those sites is material designed to sow doubts in readers’ minds. (Ps. 26:4; Prov. 22:5) Others have used material from our publications or our jw.org logo in advertisements, on products offered for sale, and in mobile device apps. By securing copyright and trademark protection, we have a legal basis to prevent such misuse. (Prov. 27:12) But if we knowingly allow people, even our brothers, to post our digital content on other sites or to use the jw.org trademark to sell merchandise, the courts may not support our efforts to deter opposers and commercial enterprises.
Downloading our publications from anywhere but jw.org is potentially dangerous.

Jehovah has entrusted the responsibility of providing spiritual food to “the faithful and discreet slave” alone. (Matt. 24:45) That “slave” uses only its official websites to publish spiritual food—www.jw.org, tv.jw.org, and wol.jw.org. And we have only three official apps for mobile devices—JW Language®, JW Library®, and JW Library Sign Language®. We can trust these products to be free of advertisements or contamination by Satan’s world. If the spiritual food passes through other channels, there is no guarantee that it has not been altered or contaminated.—Ps. 18:26; 19:8.Furthermore, posting our publications on websites that allow comments provides a place for apostates and other critics to sow distrust of Jehovah’s organization. Some brothers have been drawn into online debates and thus have brought added reproach on Jehovah’s name. An online forum is not an appropriate setting for “instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed.” (2 Tim. 2:23-25; 1 Tim. 6:3-5) It has also been observed that fraudulent social media accounts and websites have been created in the name of the organization, the Governing Body, and its individual members. However, no member of the Governing Body maintains a personal Web page or a presence on any social media site.

Directing people to jw.org helps to spread the “good news.” (Matt. 24:14) The digital tools we receive for use in our personal ministry are continually being improved. We would like everyone to benefit from them. Therefore, as the Terms of Use indicates, you may e-mail someone an electronic copy of a publication or share a link to material found on jw.org. By directing interested people to our official websites, we are connecting them with the one true source of spiritual food, “the faithful and discreet slave.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2018364?q=copyright&p=par

24

Consummed

by Hobbittz in

jw
friends

i am head over heels in love with a man who was raised jw.

i believe he is fighting demons, however, and is torn between what his heart wants to do, his beliefs, his depression & lack of self confidence.

he has had 2 wives.

Anders Andersen

You're most likely fighting a battle that was lost long time ago.

He should be willing to improve himself, untangle his mess, work on his issues. And he has more issues than just being in a cult.

If he doesn't fight for himself, there's nothing you can do.

If you stay, you will play twentysecond fiddle, right behind his allegiance to a cult, his guilt, his issues...you may lose love, or worse lose yourself in the process.

Can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.

A good starting point would be for him to divorce his wife. If he can't or won't...he may not be as committed to you as you are to him...

10

If shunning were no longer a JW policy, how many would leave the Org?

by HiddenPimo in

additionally - if this shunning rule was removed and everyone was made aware of the dirty secrets of the org.. (e.g.

csa-arc / un membership / malawi - mexico contrast / etc.).

would those leaving be higher?.

Anders Andersen

Some consequences I can see if ever the mandatory shunning would be done away with:

Many dubs will continue shunning anyway. WT policy has become their identity; that can't be changed simply by shunning not be mandatory anymore. Only if WT would forbid shunning they'd change. Compare with the unofficial shunning of former JW who are neither DA or DF; they are shunned even though the rules don't strictly say JW must do that. Fundamentalist religionists think and act black and white, us vs them, even if shunning were not explicitly mandatory.
Quite a few PIMO will leave. I estimate perhaps up to 10%.
Many already faded dubs/POMO will finally officially withdraw themselves from the religion by DAing. I would!
The most interesting result would be long term though. Humans have the tendency to attribute high(er) value to things that have cost them much. And the more we have already paid for something, the more we are prepared to pay on top. Shunning your own dear friends, parents, children, siblings is as high as cost can get for JW living in free countries. Once they have resolutely shunned on command, they become even more determined and motivated to make that high emotional cost worth while. They are more likely to stay in the religion longer. Without mandatory shunning, less JW will pay this ultimate price, and I think on average the JW will become inactive and leave a little sooner. This lower retention rate translates in lower membership numbers.

3

For the lovers of Jung and synchronicity - yesterday's experience

by TheOldHippie in

one, synchronicity.

totally amateurishly explained, it means something like acausal meaningful coincidence.

to make an example rewritten from jung, a woman tells him about her dream of a foreign special type of beetle.

Anders Andersen

Wow, what a strange event and eerie coincidence!

I really mean that. Also, that's as far as I'm willing to go :-D

With accounts like these, I always wonder why - if any force would want to communicate something - they choose seemingly random events, accidents, coincidences to communicate, and only leave riddles very much open to interpretation of the spectators.

Instead of pushing a book, why not pick up a pen and write down exactly what it is they want to communicate?

Ah well. As long as you and your wife are ok and not freaked out, it's ok anyway :-D

25

I think I made up my mind

by paradiseseeker in

jw
friends

a month ago i travelled alone to italy for three days and i had the opportunity to visit the beautiful florence and re-visit many parts of rome.. but most importantly, i had the opportunity to stay alone and think about my situation and to make up my mind.. i've had very clear for almost 5 years that i will eventually leave the religion, but i couldn't decide when.. but now i know : i will leave on april 20th, the day after the memorial.. that day i will talk to my parents (this is by far the hardest thing to do) and soon afterwards i will talk to my closest friends, then i will send my disassociation letter.

i know that i will let them down, i will hurt them, most probably some of them will cry... but i need to live coherently for the first time in my life.

i'm sure that living in this contradiction is affecting and will affect my mental health and it's time for me to help myself instead of others.

Anders Andersen

Congrats on making up your mind!

This surely is a big step for anyone to take. I can imagine that you can see yourself pulling out last minute.

You have the right to live your life as you see fit.

You are not responsible for other people's happiness, only your own.

If people choose to feel sad or angry over your choice of religion, that is entirely up to them. That is not your burden to carry.

However....

I do agree with other posters on some points.

1) Doing this right after the memorial makes the event a yearly painful event for friends and family. It also (somewhat intentionally) puts a downer on their yearly religious high. So if you do this, do it today. Or on some other non-specific date. It's more kind to everyone.

2) DA or not DA doesn't really make a difference in your status to Watchtower. Watchtower doesn't have a centrally maintained membership list. If you DA, both the local congregation and the branch office will keep a record of your DA. If you don't DA, only your local congregation will keep a record of you being inactive. Either way, a record is kept somewhere. DA serves no real purpose, except perhaps for giving you closure. In that case, consider writing a DA letter, put it in an envelope, but don't send it. Or send it to Bethel without identifying yourself. Remember that when you DA, your family must shun you. If you don't, they probably will, but they don't have to if they choose not to.

An alternative to DA is to quit cold Turkey. Simply stop all JW activity. Tell your friends and family "I can no longer in good conscience attend JW meetings or go to field service." When they ask for details, tell them you are willing to share your reasons if they promise confidentiality. If any elders call or text, politely but firmly tell them to get lost. This scenario worked somewhat for me. Most JW friends dropped me anyway. Some JW family too. But a few friends and family are still in touch, which they wouldn't have if I DAed...

Anyway, regardless of all our opinions, do what you know needs to be done.

Good luck to you! I wish you wisdom, calmness and strength to go from pimo to pomo. You deserve to live as you see fit!